Here is the translation of the TCN video interview with Maulana Abul Qasim Nomani Sahab (DB).
Maulana : When British capture this country and the the people from here adopted different means to get freedom, there were organized face offs till 1857. Whichever organizations were there in 1857, whether these be of a community or general one, after getting exhausted by the British they felt that now they can not be faced with force and militarily. And British got control of the whole country. Since they had snatched the control from Muslims, after destroying the Mughal Sultanate, there main targets were Muslim community, Muslim culture and the religion of Islam. Thus, though they target all Indians, their focused targets were Islam and Muslims. Therefore their Lord Governor made this announcement that now we shall establish such educational institutions in India that people studying there will will be Indian by their colour and race but by mentality and thinking they will be British. It is obvious that they had the missionaries, force, military, money and there fore our Scholars felt that now in this country Muslims have to save and protect their religion, culture, and religious inheritance on their own. And only this path can drive the British out of this country.
Therefore after ten years of 1857, in 1867 (15 Muharram-ul-Haraam, 1283AH), with consultation with respectable Scholars and in this Mosque in Deoband, the foundation of the Madrasa was laid down. On the face of it its purpose was to teaching and learning but the parallel aim was to free Muslims and this country from British slavery. In fact the founder was that person who had taken on the British in the battlefield of Shamli. And its first student, Shaikh-ul-Hind Maulana Mehmoodul Hasan Madani Sahab (RA), later on lead the Silken Kerchief Movement, went through imprisonment in Malta and thus addressed the students that do you think Madarsa is merely a seminary for teaching and learning? This is not merely an educational institution but a fortress for protection of cultural and religious inheritance of Muslims and an institution to train Muslims to live like Muslims as well as an institution to impart the sentiment to achieve freedom from British. As a result work was done on both of the fronts. And by the Grace of Allah (SWT) country achieved freedom in 1947 after a struggle of ninety years.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Scholars of Islam played a great role in the freedom of India but it is not acknowledged.
Maulana : Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : After independence they did not play that significant a role (in affairs of India).
Maulana : I shall urge the following. The leading organization of Muslims was Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind, Hazrat Shaikh-ul-Hind came back from there (imprisonment in Malta) in 1919 and Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind was established in 1920. It took up the task of freeing India. In view of the prevailing thoughts of the times it also participated in Parliamentary elections. There were many organizations. On one side was the Indian National Congress, then there was Khilafat Committee, there was Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind and there was mutual co-operation between them and there used to be mutual consultations also. Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind had the leading role. Thus there were episodes when there were three stages in a single ground, on one side it is Khilafat Committee, Congress on the other and Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind on yet another and the other two stages were in wait of the resolution to be passed by the Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind. Then they would make their decisions.
In India the first voice for complete independence was raised by the Scholars ('Ulama) otherwise the other leaders were content with little bit of self-governance. That we want complete freedom this voice was raised first of all by Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind. This is the voice provided by them. After that when the land was leveled then everybody accepted it.
Their objective was not to get a share in the governance but free the country from slavery, to protect the culture and civilization of Muslims. They did not want a (worldly) fruit for their efforts. Thus when whole of the Muslim community was inclined towards division of India the Scholars of Deoband firmly opposed the division. On this path they had to go through hardships, they were insulted, their caps were tossed in the air but whatever was true from the point of view of trust on that they stayed firm.
And as the country became free their objective was achieved. So our leaders (Akaabir) who were going to jail, running movements, who had committed life and blood for freedom they immediately declared that we no more have anything to do with the parliamentary politics of the country. Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind, the sole political representative, immediately declared that we shall no more participate in elections.
Now there complete inclination was citizen's rights of Muslims. The tragedy of partition of India after independence in which so many thousand of Muslims were made homeless, were killed, so for many years the attention of Muslims and specially Scholars was occupied by the task of assuring and strengthening Muslims to hold ground. The way Punjab was deserted, Mewat was greatly evacuated. Even Delhi was nearly getting deserted. Maulana Muhammed Mian Sahab, Maulana Hifzur Rahman Sahab, Maulana Abdul Kalam, Maulana Ahmed Saeed Sahab, Mufti Kifayatullah Sahab and Maulana Husain Ahmed Sahab Madani - these were the people who committed their life and flesh to make Muslims stand their ground.
So for quite some time their whole efforts were for preservation and protection of Muslims. After that the lobby that got hold of the power it had bias in its mind. Slowly they weakened the political and social value of Muslims and today we have the result in front of us that in jobs, in parliament, in local bodies, in business and trade, in agriculture whatever share Muslims had their graph is constantly coming down.
So their (Scholars') whole attention has been on protection of their religious and cultural heritage and to get their citizen's rights, on maintaining their identity, protect their Deen and religion from interference from outside. The whole time period had got consumed in defense. That how the circumstances have been. From inside they were busy in teaching and learning of their religion and its protection and defense and even in the external field also their attention was occupied by defensive mechanisms. The series of communal riots, that began, then it killed so many Muslims and their settlements were destroyed, they were arrested and imprisoned in false cases. The mentality that was there at that time has not changed still.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So what should be don in this context now?What should Muslims of India do?
Maulana : For Muslims the biggest support is always from Allah (SWT) but (in matter of means) the last resort is the constitution of India. These were the efforts of the Scholars only that in those circumstance when the episode of partition was fresh in the minds and there were people present who said that Muslims have got their share and they are gone and this is a Hindu state now - at that time the law that was framed for the country that was secular. Thus for us a strong support is the law of this land. We should strive to protect the law, to induce others to do the same, to remind the governments, be it central, state or local bodies, of their responsibilities and to protect those rights that we have under constitution. Whatever movements are going on our first priority is that (stated just before). Take the Right to Education that they are implementing, we reminded them that this is against this act of law. Waqf Law, this is against that law. Whatever citizen's rights we have got that should not be compromised.
Another responsibility is to destroy the poison of communalism in the country, even today in this country there is a big population that has secular mentality, (secularism is not opposition or enmity towards religion - it only means that law of the land is not religious), to make the spirit of the law of the land public and prevail, to co-operate with the secular minded people, to get their help so ah to weaken the serpent of communalism that is raising its head. (10.21)
Kashif-ul-Huda : Don't you think that this type of (anti-Muslims incidents and policies) will keep occurring till we participate in governance? Things are going from bad to worse.
Maulana : You are assessing rightly. There are two ways to participate in power. Let us talk of the whole country, not of Assam or some pockets, the reality is that we do not have a situation where we can become the ruling party on our own strength.
Kashif-ul-Huda : But you said that there is big chunk of people who have secular mind.
Maulana : Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Why can't it be that Muslims as well as others give vote to a Muslims candidate?
Maulana : That also happens but in all it is not possible that Muslims can become a ruling party and come into power by combining their votes with their other supporters. Thus to strengthen the secular forces and to see to it that communal people do not capture power (is all that can be done). See there is reaction to every action so if we raise the voice that this is a Muslim candidate and vote for him on the basis of religion then of necessity there will be an echo that here is a Hindu candidate and vote for him. After that we may or may not succeed but often it is seen that they are surely successful. In any area where there is a possibility that a Muslim candidate might win there it is seen that rather than putting their might behind one candidate you see that ten Muslim candidates run for election and as a result in Muslim majority areas Muslim candidate looses and the BJP candidate wins.What is the reason? Whenever vote was asked in the name of Muslim candidate then as a reaction all non-Muslim votes got consolidated and went to BJP and their candidate won.
So this situation of power sharing is not probable that we can come to power ourselves. From the sheer numerical reality this is merely a dream.
So the only possibility is that those people be brought to power who have clean mentality. Moreover we have been asserting for his even now that in every walk of life Muslims be given reservation in proportion to their population. This is for the reason that whatever our share is we get it. We are not getting that. If we are 33 % some where then every party should make 33 % candidates Muslims. In assembly, in parliament there should be proportionate representation. This is what is called sharing. Sharing is that we get our share and others get their share. Acquiring power means that we are on the top and other low. This latter possibility belongs to dream and imagination.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So Dar-ul-Uloom is hundred and fifty years old.
Maulana :Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : And you shall get Dar-ul-Ulooms in every cornet of the world. These have been established by people taught by you.
Maulana : Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So you see that this movement is quite successful. And these are being run using community resources without external support.
Maulana : Yes. Alhamdulillah.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So what do you feel? What is the reason behind its success? Because Madarsas were established earlier too before Dar-ul-Uloom. Great Scholars (Akabireen) had established Madrasas.
Maulana : Right.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Shah waliullah (RA) established Madarsa Rahimia that is still a small one.
Maulana : See there are two basic reasons behind that. Firstly the purity of intent of the people behind its establishment. They did not do it for any worldly benefits. It was done purely to please Allah (SWT) and to preserve and propagate his Religion. Secondly detachment from this world and a respectable distance from wealth and riches. So the eight basic rules of the founder Maulana Qasim Nanotwi (RA), in them it is included that any government of any country or any rich person or any Nawab and any person having worldly power of any kind, there should be abstinence from accepting their support.
Kashif-ul-Huda : It will be nice to get those Eight Basic Rules.
Maulana : Do not remember them by memory but these will be given to you, Inshaa Allah. So one point is that the institution be run by public contribution. And there be sufficient efforts to do collection from the public so that there is maximal connection with the common people. So when a person spends money on some thing then he has inclination and attachment to it. So the intention was that its roots be strong in the common people. If its connection is with the people of money, it is quite possible that we might have such financially strong people in the country that a hundred or two will bear the expanses by themselves, but we never have our sights on that. We depend on five and ten rupees contributions, and even that is in the present times other wise it was one rupee or two rupees, in fact it has run on one or two paisas contributions. (Translator's Note : Today five thousand paisas will not make a dollar.)
So firstly the purity of intent of the founders and secondly the attitude that common Muslims think of it as their own institution. Now this sentiment that was here at this central institute the very same sentiment and spirit was exported by those people who established the Madarsas at different places. Thus branches of a single tree kept spreading on. And they reached the whole world. Of course there have been big institutions in the world but they were running under the protection of one government or another or some rich Nawab or other.
I was expecting that you will ask why the situation has not changed after so many years of independence. In that regard my answer is that now our attention is towards Deen only. You are student of history so remember that similar tragedy happened in Spain. It was Muslim rule there.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : But Christians overpowered them.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : Then Islam disappeared from there.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : Same thing happened in Russia. It had Muslim rule. It was a significant center of Islam. Great Scholars, Muhaddiseen and Mufassireen belonged to that region. But when Islamic government was abolished there then for sixty years there was none to recite Allah (SWT)'s name there.
So if the attention of our teachers and founders was not directed towards protecting and propagating religious basics and the focus was political matters and external issues then the same story would have been enacted here. Thus they learned lesson from those events and were aware that the same situation is unfolding here that was in Spain that Christian Missionaries, from the point of view of religion, political power, money, were coming into position of power. This is a rather deceptive community, so they concluded that we must focus all of our attention on protecting our religious heritage.
In that, by the Grace of Allah (SWT), we are completely successful. I can say that without fear of contradiction. I'll give you an evidence. Near them it is considered a fault. It is being said as far as in America that most fundamentalist of all people are from this subcontinent - which has got divided into three countries, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh otherwise it is a single country - undivided India. All these three parts have influence of Dar-ul-Uloom and the Pious People (Akabireen) of Dar-ul-Uloom.
So the people who are called fundamentalists, these are the result of that 150 years old hard work. What is the meaning of fundamentalism? It simply means that even today foundation of our Religion is firm. They could not up root it and Lord willing will never be able to do that in future. It roots have spread so far and wide under the ground that like the case of a Baniyan tree if some one wants to uproot that Lord willing he shall not succeed.
Kashif-ul-Huda : One result of spreading of branches is that some of them grow into trees on their own. So some people are such that they have adopted rather violent attitude. They became prone to violence. They adopted rather fanatic attitude. Though Deoband does not have that.
Maulana : True. To be inclined towards balance is the part of Deoband attitude.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : See there are two things. From the point of view of our Religion, its teachings, its distinction, we are not ready to give any single part of that. We are extremist in that. But in that we do not have an opponent. This extremism is not against anyone. The second one is question of non-violence that is basically a matter of commonality (Rawadari), the normal matter of fact interaction with others, we have regards for them and we want them to have regard for us. We want to freely act on our religion and let them freely act on their religion. The rights they have the same should be given to us. But non-violence does not mean that Dar-ul-Uloom has any easy going attitude towards its Deen and it (Islam ) is not negotiable for us. We are rather firm about that. Hazrat Maulana Qari Taiyyab Sahab (RA) has thus defined Deobandism as partisanship towards Deen in which we are not against anyone.
Kashif-ul-Huda : But some people who have been influenced by you, ...
Maulana : You can name them.
Kashif-ul-Huda : For example Taliban. It is said that they are influenced by Deoband. Apart from that also, how can you influence them? You see that in many Muslim countries the things ...
Maulana : You have asked a very good question.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Events are taking place at many places and they are asserting that they are working for Islam and they are working for Deen only. Even in India such conditions are becoming possible that some one may end up being violent here also because Muslims have been cornered into such situation. How will you influence or control that?
Maulana : See branch means two things. One is that it has maintained connection with the center. So I was relating the following that branch means two things. One you have a center and it controls the afiliated. In Dar-ul-Uloom you do not have that arrangement at all. We do not have a branch of Dar-ul-Uloom.
Kashif-ul-Huda : I see.
Maulana : But the people who are trained here when they go out and establish Madarsa at their place and this being their Alma Mater they show connection with it. They realte themselves with it (Dar-ul-Uloom). In that way Dar-ul-Uloom is theirt center. Then there is the Tack (Maslak), beliefs about Allah (SWT) and his Prophet (PBUH), what should be the beliefs about Judgment Day, on the basis of which the Maslaks (divisions) have been formed like Deobandi, Barelwi, Ghair Muqallid called Ahl-e-Hadith, so from that type of perspective they (the branches) are any way realted to us. But in their modus operaendi their operations and actions, on that they are not under the control of Dar-ul-Uloom, Deoband. So when Taliban say that they are Deobandi they are simply distinguishing from Barelwis and Ahle-Hadith, and Maududist view. They are only accepting Dar-ul-Uloom tack (and not an affiliation). It does not amount that their actions are taking place under Dar-ul-Uloom guidance. We do not involved there.
Kashif-ul-Huda : But your influence on them is there in the whole world, not merely in the sub-continent. So how do you use your influence so that such things are not there? See Muslims have a responsibility.
Maulana : True. You shall remember that when the violence manifested and it was called terrorism and its accusation was made towards Muslims and specifically the Madaris then not only Dar-ul-Uloom organized a very big conference in 2008 against terrorism in which Scholars of all Tacks were invited in this very same compound of Dar-ul-Uloom but even a Fatwah too was published together with that.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Hum.
Maulana : And that Fatwa wah very well publishiezed and it was made very clear that this Taliban Movement has no connection with Dar-ul-Uloom. If they still insist that they are Deobandi then they are so from the point of view of Tack. (Accepting the Deoband exegesis of Islam). Tack is one thing and political and other activities are completely different things. If there was any guding from Dar-ul-Uloom then there would have been some signs of that here too. There would not have been condemnation. There would have been no Fatwah. But if they still insist on beinf called Deobandi then it is their view.They are Deobandi by Tack (in the sense of accepting the Deoband attitude towards Islam and the explanation of its teachings.)
There are many people who adopt Deoband Tack. There are people all over the world. Some teach in universities, some are scientists, some are physicians - they call themselves Deobandis (though they never studied here.) Similarly Taliban say that they are Deobandis. So whatever they are doing that can not be attributed to Dar-ul-Uloom. Their identification is with Tack only and not their physical actions.Whatever influence we can put on them we do that but they are not subordinate to us.
Kashif-ul-Huda : How do you influence them?
Maulana : By articulating our view publicly. We do not have any physical power or control. We publish our view is papers we say our point of view in our speeches.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Tell us this, Islam is a thousand or a thousand a half years old in India, as old as it is itself. Within in the begining of Islam there Muslims reached Gujrat [sic]. In spite of that the majority of Indians whether the be the Hindus or of other religious denomination they do not know about Islam. What do you say about that.
Maulana : That is a good question. The reason behind that is that Islam, whatever reached here, that came through Sufis or the great pious souls. (26.09)
There method was that whoever came to them was affected by their character and piety and they became Muslims. But enough attention was not paid to their education in training (in Islam). They merely entered Islam. And the society and environment they lived in , whatever were their old life style and traditions, that remained with them to a large extent. As far as the governments are concerned it can be said that they were Muslims rulers but their rule can not be termed Islamic rule. No ruler performed any task as a service to Islam. They did construct Mosques and Madarsas but to introduce Islam to the masses, to bring the people close to religion, they did nothing. They were inclined towards democratic tendencies and that is why you see that Muslim ruler had a Hindu army chief and vice-a-versa. In some cases there was much excess in this matter - take the example of Akbar. Look at that. The best example that you can think of was Aurangzeb Alamgir who was a religious king. But this also was related to his justice, concern for the masses and personal piety. At the most if he rendered a service then it was merely the academic service of compilation of Fatawa Alamgiri. He too did not make any efforts to communicate Islam at the country level or any kind of Tabligh.
This is the reason.
Kashif-ul-Huda : What are we doing?
Maulana : We? Well the real task at the moment is to protect our religious knowledge and to transfer it to our coming generations. So our real task ...
Kashif-ul-Huda : But that we are doing for hundred and fifty years.
Maulana : Does it mean the job is over?
Kashif-ul-Huda : That was not the meaning.
Maulana : It is neither over nor completed. And the generation keeps changing.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Earlier you had mentioned that some things are happening because of the current power situation like Muslims not getting their due in jobs. The laws that are being made and other things - the reason behind that is that they do not know much about Muslims. They do not know about Islam. And our fellow citizen, non-Muslims, they do not know about Islam.
Maulana : See Dar-ul-Uloom is not the only thing in India. Real work of Dar-ul-Uloom is on (religious) education. Then there is the department of Tabligh (communication of Islam's teachings). It has got two aspects. One is self correction or Islah. Islah means to train Muslims in correct Islamic practices and to remove the wrong practices. The other one is introducing Islam to others. It is not that this work is not taking place. In this regard there is a defensive aspect. There are lectures and sermons here. There booklets are prepared. Every week there is a lecture for higher class students in which they are introduced to Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism as well as those sects that have appeared in Islam itself who target us like Ghair Muqallid, Barelwi and Shia. To introduce these issues as well as to send Scholars as per requirements (to other places). Similarly our Scholars deliver lectures, we have our orators who participate in big functions. There it is not merely faith, Prayer, Fasting and Haj that is talked about but even Islamic etiquette, what is Islam, rights of neighbours, how to live with countrymen, what are Islamic dealings, these are explained within the limits of the law of the land. In reality direct invitation to others to enter Islam has by and large become questionable.
Kashif-ul-Huda : That is in some states.
Maulana : No, not in some states - it is the national law. Even to hint some one to leave his religion and enter Islam , that too has become a a crime. You can introduce Islam, that this is Islam. But you can not say that you leave your religion and come to ours. Though the restriction is on Muslims only - there is not questioning if others indulge in that. But that is the law.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Actually my question was about introduction (of Islam) only. Then there is another question. After the tragedy of 1857 there was one response from Dar-ul-Uloom that has been very successful in the field of religious education. Another response was ...
Maulana : Muslim University.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes. Their movement. Their view was different, they thought that modern education is the solution. That is there and it going on.
Maulana : Yes, that is good.
Kashif-ul-Huda : It is seen that these two movements are moving away from each other. Thus Allama Shibli Nomani made Nadwat-ul-Uloom [sic] so as to merge the two ideologies. What is your view about it? What should be done now? You have introduced modern education like English for last fifteen years or so.
Maulana : See there are three types of institutions. There are some that are dedicated to purely modern education. There are others like Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband and Mazahir Uloom Saharnpur that are purely for religious education. Then there were some experiments where a combined educational system was adopted. Results of all three are there for us to see. All three of them are working at their own places.
This is not necessary that all the institutions introduce modern education. Some institution are doing that work. Foundation of Dar-ul-Uloom was laid down for the purpose of preservation and protection of basic fundamental and beliefs of religion. We do have computer education, English education and vocational education but that has been introduced as auxiliary syllabus without disturbing the regular syllabus. The reason is that it has been our experience that wherever the two things were mixed then it neither remained religious syllabus nor it achieve the goals of modern education. Both were mixed together and there was no good result out of it.
Take Madarsatul Islah Sarai Meer, take Madarsatul Falah Bilaryaganj, to some exyent we can take the name of Nadawatul Ulama too though religious aspect is dominant there too. But the institutions working in the religious field, be it of defense or assertion, be it book writing, be it sermonizing and lecturing, be it education or teaching, you yourself are admitting it that not only last century, not only in India but at the global level, the people who are serving the Deen are the products of Dar-ul-Uloom or the institutions running on this pattern.
For others the livelihood might be easy, they might go to embassies for translation jobs, or other countries and get better pay but livelihood is not the fundamental problem. For Dar-ul-Uloom the fundamental issue is Deen. Livelihood is not given primary importance. The institution of modern education combined with religion, there are many experiments. There is Jamiatul Hidaya in Jaipur, there is Nadwatul Ulama. In our Benaras there is Jamia Salafiya. All of them have different syllabi. Syllabus of one Madarsa will not match with the syllabus of the others. After completing the education he might be called Nadwi, ...
Kashif-ul-Huda : Don't you feel that, ... you have got your website ... of Dar-ul-Ifta. People ask questions. Fatawah are asked on diverse topics. So to understand those Fatawah .. modern life has become rather complex.... people will ask you questions like what is genetics. Whether genetic engineering is allowed or not. This entails that Mufti Sahab has to study genetic engineering. So don't you feel that if not all there should be some student's who have expertize in those fields also. I mean the Muftis that are being produced.
Maulana : I understand the concern. But tell me one thing. Suppose whatever is the nature of questions being asked, physiology, science, geometry, algebra the does it mean that they should study all of these?
What ever is their specialization be it Fiqh, Qur'an, Hadith, Usool - in that they have to develop expertize. After that whatever topic questions are asked to them the relevant experts will be consulted. A physician sits to traet patients then he asks for ten types of tests, this thing and that test, go to this lab and bring report from there, all that. When he has ten reports then he writes a single prescription. So if a question is asked about science to a Mufti then intriduction of science in his syllabus to answer that is not comprehensible to me.
If these is am inquiry about science then he will ask corresponding expert, if the question is regarding astronomy then corresponding expert can be consulted. There is not be a training in which a person is expert in all fields of inquiry. And to know minute amounts of every thing is not sufficient.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Small amount of knowledge (of diverse fields) is necessary so that you can understand as to what the expert is telling you. To understand his explanation you yourself should have a basic understanding of science. For an expert it is not possible to expound from the beginning as to what is a cell and what are genes. Basic understanding is required.
Maulana : This is not necessary that every Mufti can answer every matter. You see there is Figh Academy. These too are our products. Every type of question is asked there. Every type of expert is called there. If it is a matter of business then business experts are called for consultation. Whatever information is needed on tecnical grouds it is asked from them. Then decision of allowed and forbidden is done by another expert. Informatiion from different sources is collected and the decision is made after making use of all the information. So this is not possible that every query is answered immediately and every Mufti can not answer every question. That is impossible. Nor such solution is possible.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Does this also happen that some question is asked to Dar-ul-Uloom and the answer is not given?
Maulana : Yes. We do not give answer and say that we do not know about it. To answer without knowing is a crime. We just say that we do not know about it. Also understand that this type of questions are usually unnecessary. These are only for increasing information. These have nothing to do with Halaal and Haraam or hereafter.
Kashif-ul-Huda : How do you see the future of Indian Muslims.
Maulana : I see that very bright, Lord willing. For us the future neither menas political power nor excess of money but it is preservation of our religious heritage. That Mulim lives like a Muslim in India and self reliant. By the Grace of Allah (SWT) with the passing of time in place of desperation Muslims are becoming confidant. We are not hopeless in the least bit and we hope that our coming generations will be courageous and confident from every point of view.
If there was any question of hopelessness then seeing the past conditions we could conclude that after independence Muslims of India would have been finished by now. The time that has passed since 1947 there has been a series of riots, killings and murders, looting. There were attempts to demoralize them but if they have gone into desperation then today they would have been non-existent. Allah (SWT) has given them patience and forebearance and courage and strength. And under adverse circumstances internal courage is born, Allah (SWT) help is with us. We have not lost any hope at all.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Can you summarize how Shah Waliullah (RA) influenced Deoband?
Maulana : Shah Waliullah Muhaddis Dehlawi (RA) did not influence Deoband, he lived in different times, long back. Students of his students extracted some ideology from his thoughts and those were the people who established Dar-ul-Uloom. Dar-ul-Uloom is founded on his ideology. In his ideology there is openness in Deen as well as moderation and balance. It is neither constricted (suffocating) nor it is completely lessez faire. Source is same near Shah Sahab (RA), Qur'an and Hadith, same is for us. Health of Aqeedah, firmness on Deen, and a vigil on the environment. Shah Sahab (RA) son Shah Abdul Aziz (RA) had given a Fatawah of India being Dar-ul-Harab after influx of British into India. These (the founders of Dar-ul-Uloom) are successors of them (Shah waliullah (RA) and Shah Abdul Aziz (RA)). These are stidents of their students. So whatever were their concerns, after changed circumstances the interpretations have changed, but the basic concerns are those of Shah Sahab (RA). So we can not say that Shah Sahab (RA) established Dar-ul-Uloom but we should say that his intellectual successors adopted his ideology and his concerns to establish Dar-ul-Uloom.
Maulana : When British capture this country and the the people from here adopted different means to get freedom, there were organized face offs till 1857. Whichever organizations were there in 1857, whether these be of a community or general one, after getting exhausted by the British they felt that now they can not be faced with force and militarily. And British got control of the whole country. Since they had snatched the control from Muslims, after destroying the Mughal Sultanate, there main targets were Muslim community, Muslim culture and the religion of Islam. Thus, though they target all Indians, their focused targets were Islam and Muslims. Therefore their Lord Governor made this announcement that now we shall establish such educational institutions in India that people studying there will will be Indian by their colour and race but by mentality and thinking they will be British. It is obvious that they had the missionaries, force, military, money and there fore our Scholars felt that now in this country Muslims have to save and protect their religion, culture, and religious inheritance on their own. And only this path can drive the British out of this country.
Therefore after ten years of 1857, in 1867 (15 Muharram-ul-Haraam, 1283AH), with consultation with respectable Scholars and in this Mosque in Deoband, the foundation of the Madrasa was laid down. On the face of it its purpose was to teaching and learning but the parallel aim was to free Muslims and this country from British slavery. In fact the founder was that person who had taken on the British in the battlefield of Shamli. And its first student, Shaikh-ul-Hind Maulana Mehmoodul Hasan Madani Sahab (RA), later on lead the Silken Kerchief Movement, went through imprisonment in Malta and thus addressed the students that do you think Madarsa is merely a seminary for teaching and learning? This is not merely an educational institution but a fortress for protection of cultural and religious inheritance of Muslims and an institution to train Muslims to live like Muslims as well as an institution to impart the sentiment to achieve freedom from British. As a result work was done on both of the fronts. And by the Grace of Allah (SWT) country achieved freedom in 1947 after a struggle of ninety years.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Scholars of Islam played a great role in the freedom of India but it is not acknowledged.
Maulana : Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : After independence they did not play that significant a role (in affairs of India).
Maulana : I shall urge the following. The leading organization of Muslims was Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind, Hazrat Shaikh-ul-Hind came back from there (imprisonment in Malta) in 1919 and Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind was established in 1920. It took up the task of freeing India. In view of the prevailing thoughts of the times it also participated in Parliamentary elections. There were many organizations. On one side was the Indian National Congress, then there was Khilafat Committee, there was Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind and there was mutual co-operation between them and there used to be mutual consultations also. Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind had the leading role. Thus there were episodes when there were three stages in a single ground, on one side it is Khilafat Committee, Congress on the other and Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind on yet another and the other two stages were in wait of the resolution to be passed by the Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind. Then they would make their decisions.
In India the first voice for complete independence was raised by the Scholars ('Ulama) otherwise the other leaders were content with little bit of self-governance. That we want complete freedom this voice was raised first of all by Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind. This is the voice provided by them. After that when the land was leveled then everybody accepted it.
Their objective was not to get a share in the governance but free the country from slavery, to protect the culture and civilization of Muslims. They did not want a (worldly) fruit for their efforts. Thus when whole of the Muslim community was inclined towards division of India the Scholars of Deoband firmly opposed the division. On this path they had to go through hardships, they were insulted, their caps were tossed in the air but whatever was true from the point of view of trust on that they stayed firm.
And as the country became free their objective was achieved. So our leaders (Akaabir) who were going to jail, running movements, who had committed life and blood for freedom they immediately declared that we no more have anything to do with the parliamentary politics of the country. Jamiat-e-Ulama-e-Hind, the sole political representative, immediately declared that we shall no more participate in elections.
Now there complete inclination was citizen's rights of Muslims. The tragedy of partition of India after independence in which so many thousand of Muslims were made homeless, were killed, so for many years the attention of Muslims and specially Scholars was occupied by the task of assuring and strengthening Muslims to hold ground. The way Punjab was deserted, Mewat was greatly evacuated. Even Delhi was nearly getting deserted. Maulana Muhammed Mian Sahab, Maulana Hifzur Rahman Sahab, Maulana Abdul Kalam, Maulana Ahmed Saeed Sahab, Mufti Kifayatullah Sahab and Maulana Husain Ahmed Sahab Madani - these were the people who committed their life and flesh to make Muslims stand their ground.
So for quite some time their whole efforts were for preservation and protection of Muslims. After that the lobby that got hold of the power it had bias in its mind. Slowly they weakened the political and social value of Muslims and today we have the result in front of us that in jobs, in parliament, in local bodies, in business and trade, in agriculture whatever share Muslims had their graph is constantly coming down.
So their (Scholars') whole attention has been on protection of their religious and cultural heritage and to get their citizen's rights, on maintaining their identity, protect their Deen and religion from interference from outside. The whole time period had got consumed in defense. That how the circumstances have been. From inside they were busy in teaching and learning of their religion and its protection and defense and even in the external field also their attention was occupied by defensive mechanisms. The series of communal riots, that began, then it killed so many Muslims and their settlements were destroyed, they were arrested and imprisoned in false cases. The mentality that was there at that time has not changed still.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So what should be don in this context now?What should Muslims of India do?
Maulana : For Muslims the biggest support is always from Allah (SWT) but (in matter of means) the last resort is the constitution of India. These were the efforts of the Scholars only that in those circumstance when the episode of partition was fresh in the minds and there were people present who said that Muslims have got their share and they are gone and this is a Hindu state now - at that time the law that was framed for the country that was secular. Thus for us a strong support is the law of this land. We should strive to protect the law, to induce others to do the same, to remind the governments, be it central, state or local bodies, of their responsibilities and to protect those rights that we have under constitution. Whatever movements are going on our first priority is that (stated just before). Take the Right to Education that they are implementing, we reminded them that this is against this act of law. Waqf Law, this is against that law. Whatever citizen's rights we have got that should not be compromised.
Another responsibility is to destroy the poison of communalism in the country, even today in this country there is a big population that has secular mentality, (secularism is not opposition or enmity towards religion - it only means that law of the land is not religious), to make the spirit of the law of the land public and prevail, to co-operate with the secular minded people, to get their help so ah to weaken the serpent of communalism that is raising its head. (10.21)
Kashif-ul-Huda : Don't you think that this type of (anti-Muslims incidents and policies) will keep occurring till we participate in governance? Things are going from bad to worse.
Maulana : You are assessing rightly. There are two ways to participate in power. Let us talk of the whole country, not of Assam or some pockets, the reality is that we do not have a situation where we can become the ruling party on our own strength.
Kashif-ul-Huda : But you said that there is big chunk of people who have secular mind.
Maulana : Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Why can't it be that Muslims as well as others give vote to a Muslims candidate?
Maulana : That also happens but in all it is not possible that Muslims can become a ruling party and come into power by combining their votes with their other supporters. Thus to strengthen the secular forces and to see to it that communal people do not capture power (is all that can be done). See there is reaction to every action so if we raise the voice that this is a Muslim candidate and vote for him on the basis of religion then of necessity there will be an echo that here is a Hindu candidate and vote for him. After that we may or may not succeed but often it is seen that they are surely successful. In any area where there is a possibility that a Muslim candidate might win there it is seen that rather than putting their might behind one candidate you see that ten Muslim candidates run for election and as a result in Muslim majority areas Muslim candidate looses and the BJP candidate wins.What is the reason? Whenever vote was asked in the name of Muslim candidate then as a reaction all non-Muslim votes got consolidated and went to BJP and their candidate won.
So this situation of power sharing is not probable that we can come to power ourselves. From the sheer numerical reality this is merely a dream.
So the only possibility is that those people be brought to power who have clean mentality. Moreover we have been asserting for his even now that in every walk of life Muslims be given reservation in proportion to their population. This is for the reason that whatever our share is we get it. We are not getting that. If we are 33 % some where then every party should make 33 % candidates Muslims. In assembly, in parliament there should be proportionate representation. This is what is called sharing. Sharing is that we get our share and others get their share. Acquiring power means that we are on the top and other low. This latter possibility belongs to dream and imagination.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So Dar-ul-Uloom is hundred and fifty years old.
Maulana :Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : And you shall get Dar-ul-Ulooms in every cornet of the world. These have been established by people taught by you.
Maulana : Yes.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So you see that this movement is quite successful. And these are being run using community resources without external support.
Maulana : Yes. Alhamdulillah.
Kashif-ul-Huda : So what do you feel? What is the reason behind its success? Because Madarsas were established earlier too before Dar-ul-Uloom. Great Scholars (Akabireen) had established Madrasas.
Maulana : Right.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Shah waliullah (RA) established Madarsa Rahimia that is still a small one.
Maulana : See there are two basic reasons behind that. Firstly the purity of intent of the people behind its establishment. They did not do it for any worldly benefits. It was done purely to please Allah (SWT) and to preserve and propagate his Religion. Secondly detachment from this world and a respectable distance from wealth and riches. So the eight basic rules of the founder Maulana Qasim Nanotwi (RA), in them it is included that any government of any country or any rich person or any Nawab and any person having worldly power of any kind, there should be abstinence from accepting their support.
Kashif-ul-Huda : It will be nice to get those Eight Basic Rules.
Maulana : Do not remember them by memory but these will be given to you, Inshaa Allah. So one point is that the institution be run by public contribution. And there be sufficient efforts to do collection from the public so that there is maximal connection with the common people. So when a person spends money on some thing then he has inclination and attachment to it. So the intention was that its roots be strong in the common people. If its connection is with the people of money, it is quite possible that we might have such financially strong people in the country that a hundred or two will bear the expanses by themselves, but we never have our sights on that. We depend on five and ten rupees contributions, and even that is in the present times other wise it was one rupee or two rupees, in fact it has run on one or two paisas contributions. (Translator's Note : Today five thousand paisas will not make a dollar.)
So firstly the purity of intent of the founders and secondly the attitude that common Muslims think of it as their own institution. Now this sentiment that was here at this central institute the very same sentiment and spirit was exported by those people who established the Madarsas at different places. Thus branches of a single tree kept spreading on. And they reached the whole world. Of course there have been big institutions in the world but they were running under the protection of one government or another or some rich Nawab or other.
I was expecting that you will ask why the situation has not changed after so many years of independence. In that regard my answer is that now our attention is towards Deen only. You are student of history so remember that similar tragedy happened in Spain. It was Muslim rule there.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : But Christians overpowered them.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : Then Islam disappeared from there.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : Same thing happened in Russia. It had Muslim rule. It was a significant center of Islam. Great Scholars, Muhaddiseen and Mufassireen belonged to that region. But when Islamic government was abolished there then for sixty years there was none to recite Allah (SWT)'s name there.
So if the attention of our teachers and founders was not directed towards protecting and propagating religious basics and the focus was political matters and external issues then the same story would have been enacted here. Thus they learned lesson from those events and were aware that the same situation is unfolding here that was in Spain that Christian Missionaries, from the point of view of religion, political power, money, were coming into position of power. This is a rather deceptive community, so they concluded that we must focus all of our attention on protecting our religious heritage.
In that, by the Grace of Allah (SWT), we are completely successful. I can say that without fear of contradiction. I'll give you an evidence. Near them it is considered a fault. It is being said as far as in America that most fundamentalist of all people are from this subcontinent - which has got divided into three countries, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh otherwise it is a single country - undivided India. All these three parts have influence of Dar-ul-Uloom and the Pious People (Akabireen) of Dar-ul-Uloom.
So the people who are called fundamentalists, these are the result of that 150 years old hard work. What is the meaning of fundamentalism? It simply means that even today foundation of our Religion is firm. They could not up root it and Lord willing will never be able to do that in future. It roots have spread so far and wide under the ground that like the case of a Baniyan tree if some one wants to uproot that Lord willing he shall not succeed.
Kashif-ul-Huda : One result of spreading of branches is that some of them grow into trees on their own. So some people are such that they have adopted rather violent attitude. They became prone to violence. They adopted rather fanatic attitude. Though Deoband does not have that.
Maulana : True. To be inclined towards balance is the part of Deoband attitude.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes.
Maulana : See there are two things. From the point of view of our Religion, its teachings, its distinction, we are not ready to give any single part of that. We are extremist in that. But in that we do not have an opponent. This extremism is not against anyone. The second one is question of non-violence that is basically a matter of commonality (Rawadari), the normal matter of fact interaction with others, we have regards for them and we want them to have regard for us. We want to freely act on our religion and let them freely act on their religion. The rights they have the same should be given to us. But non-violence does not mean that Dar-ul-Uloom has any easy going attitude towards its Deen and it (Islam ) is not negotiable for us. We are rather firm about that. Hazrat Maulana Qari Taiyyab Sahab (RA) has thus defined Deobandism as partisanship towards Deen in which we are not against anyone.
Kashif-ul-Huda : But some people who have been influenced by you, ...
Maulana : You can name them.
Kashif-ul-Huda : For example Taliban. It is said that they are influenced by Deoband. Apart from that also, how can you influence them? You see that in many Muslim countries the things ...
Maulana : You have asked a very good question.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Events are taking place at many places and they are asserting that they are working for Islam and they are working for Deen only. Even in India such conditions are becoming possible that some one may end up being violent here also because Muslims have been cornered into such situation. How will you influence or control that?
Maulana : See branch means two things. One is that it has maintained connection with the center. So I was relating the following that branch means two things. One you have a center and it controls the afiliated. In Dar-ul-Uloom you do not have that arrangement at all. We do not have a branch of Dar-ul-Uloom.
Kashif-ul-Huda : I see.
Maulana : But the people who are trained here when they go out and establish Madarsa at their place and this being their Alma Mater they show connection with it. They realte themselves with it (Dar-ul-Uloom). In that way Dar-ul-Uloom is theirt center. Then there is the Tack (Maslak), beliefs about Allah (SWT) and his Prophet (PBUH), what should be the beliefs about Judgment Day, on the basis of which the Maslaks (divisions) have been formed like Deobandi, Barelwi, Ghair Muqallid called Ahl-e-Hadith, so from that type of perspective they (the branches) are any way realted to us. But in their modus operaendi their operations and actions, on that they are not under the control of Dar-ul-Uloom, Deoband. So when Taliban say that they are Deobandi they are simply distinguishing from Barelwis and Ahle-Hadith, and Maududist view. They are only accepting Dar-ul-Uloom tack (and not an affiliation). It does not amount that their actions are taking place under Dar-ul-Uloom guidance. We do not involved there.
Kashif-ul-Huda : But your influence on them is there in the whole world, not merely in the sub-continent. So how do you use your influence so that such things are not there? See Muslims have a responsibility.
Maulana : True. You shall remember that when the violence manifested and it was called terrorism and its accusation was made towards Muslims and specifically the Madaris then not only Dar-ul-Uloom organized a very big conference in 2008 against terrorism in which Scholars of all Tacks were invited in this very same compound of Dar-ul-Uloom but even a Fatwah too was published together with that.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Hum.
Maulana : And that Fatwa wah very well publishiezed and it was made very clear that this Taliban Movement has no connection with Dar-ul-Uloom. If they still insist that they are Deobandi then they are so from the point of view of Tack. (Accepting the Deoband exegesis of Islam). Tack is one thing and political and other activities are completely different things. If there was any guding from Dar-ul-Uloom then there would have been some signs of that here too. There would not have been condemnation. There would have been no Fatwah. But if they still insist on beinf called Deobandi then it is their view.They are Deobandi by Tack (in the sense of accepting the Deoband attitude towards Islam and the explanation of its teachings.)
There are many people who adopt Deoband Tack. There are people all over the world. Some teach in universities, some are scientists, some are physicians - they call themselves Deobandis (though they never studied here.) Similarly Taliban say that they are Deobandis. So whatever they are doing that can not be attributed to Dar-ul-Uloom. Their identification is with Tack only and not their physical actions.Whatever influence we can put on them we do that but they are not subordinate to us.
Kashif-ul-Huda : How do you influence them?
Maulana : By articulating our view publicly. We do not have any physical power or control. We publish our view is papers we say our point of view in our speeches.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Tell us this, Islam is a thousand or a thousand a half years old in India, as old as it is itself. Within in the begining of Islam there Muslims reached Gujrat [sic]. In spite of that the majority of Indians whether the be the Hindus or of other religious denomination they do not know about Islam. What do you say about that.
Maulana : That is a good question. The reason behind that is that Islam, whatever reached here, that came through Sufis or the great pious souls. (26.09)
There method was that whoever came to them was affected by their character and piety and they became Muslims. But enough attention was not paid to their education in training (in Islam). They merely entered Islam. And the society and environment they lived in , whatever were their old life style and traditions, that remained with them to a large extent. As far as the governments are concerned it can be said that they were Muslims rulers but their rule can not be termed Islamic rule. No ruler performed any task as a service to Islam. They did construct Mosques and Madarsas but to introduce Islam to the masses, to bring the people close to religion, they did nothing. They were inclined towards democratic tendencies and that is why you see that Muslim ruler had a Hindu army chief and vice-a-versa. In some cases there was much excess in this matter - take the example of Akbar. Look at that. The best example that you can think of was Aurangzeb Alamgir who was a religious king. But this also was related to his justice, concern for the masses and personal piety. At the most if he rendered a service then it was merely the academic service of compilation of Fatawa Alamgiri. He too did not make any efforts to communicate Islam at the country level or any kind of Tabligh.
This is the reason.
Kashif-ul-Huda : What are we doing?
Maulana : We? Well the real task at the moment is to protect our religious knowledge and to transfer it to our coming generations. So our real task ...
Kashif-ul-Huda : But that we are doing for hundred and fifty years.
Maulana : Does it mean the job is over?
Kashif-ul-Huda : That was not the meaning.
Maulana : It is neither over nor completed. And the generation keeps changing.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Earlier you had mentioned that some things are happening because of the current power situation like Muslims not getting their due in jobs. The laws that are being made and other things - the reason behind that is that they do not know much about Muslims. They do not know about Islam. And our fellow citizen, non-Muslims, they do not know about Islam.
Maulana : See Dar-ul-Uloom is not the only thing in India. Real work of Dar-ul-Uloom is on (religious) education. Then there is the department of Tabligh (communication of Islam's teachings). It has got two aspects. One is self correction or Islah. Islah means to train Muslims in correct Islamic practices and to remove the wrong practices. The other one is introducing Islam to others. It is not that this work is not taking place. In this regard there is a defensive aspect. There are lectures and sermons here. There booklets are prepared. Every week there is a lecture for higher class students in which they are introduced to Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism as well as those sects that have appeared in Islam itself who target us like Ghair Muqallid, Barelwi and Shia. To introduce these issues as well as to send Scholars as per requirements (to other places). Similarly our Scholars deliver lectures, we have our orators who participate in big functions. There it is not merely faith, Prayer, Fasting and Haj that is talked about but even Islamic etiquette, what is Islam, rights of neighbours, how to live with countrymen, what are Islamic dealings, these are explained within the limits of the law of the land. In reality direct invitation to others to enter Islam has by and large become questionable.
Kashif-ul-Huda : That is in some states.
Maulana : No, not in some states - it is the national law. Even to hint some one to leave his religion and enter Islam , that too has become a a crime. You can introduce Islam, that this is Islam. But you can not say that you leave your religion and come to ours. Though the restriction is on Muslims only - there is not questioning if others indulge in that. But that is the law.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Actually my question was about introduction (of Islam) only. Then there is another question. After the tragedy of 1857 there was one response from Dar-ul-Uloom that has been very successful in the field of religious education. Another response was ...
Maulana : Muslim University.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Yes. Their movement. Their view was different, they thought that modern education is the solution. That is there and it going on.
Maulana : Yes, that is good.
Kashif-ul-Huda : It is seen that these two movements are moving away from each other. Thus Allama Shibli Nomani made Nadwat-ul-Uloom [sic] so as to merge the two ideologies. What is your view about it? What should be done now? You have introduced modern education like English for last fifteen years or so.
Maulana : See there are three types of institutions. There are some that are dedicated to purely modern education. There are others like Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband and Mazahir Uloom Saharnpur that are purely for religious education. Then there were some experiments where a combined educational system was adopted. Results of all three are there for us to see. All three of them are working at their own places.
This is not necessary that all the institutions introduce modern education. Some institution are doing that work. Foundation of Dar-ul-Uloom was laid down for the purpose of preservation and protection of basic fundamental and beliefs of religion. We do have computer education, English education and vocational education but that has been introduced as auxiliary syllabus without disturbing the regular syllabus. The reason is that it has been our experience that wherever the two things were mixed then it neither remained religious syllabus nor it achieve the goals of modern education. Both were mixed together and there was no good result out of it.
Take Madarsatul Islah Sarai Meer, take Madarsatul Falah Bilaryaganj, to some exyent we can take the name of Nadawatul Ulama too though religious aspect is dominant there too. But the institutions working in the religious field, be it of defense or assertion, be it book writing, be it sermonizing and lecturing, be it education or teaching, you yourself are admitting it that not only last century, not only in India but at the global level, the people who are serving the Deen are the products of Dar-ul-Uloom or the institutions running on this pattern.
For others the livelihood might be easy, they might go to embassies for translation jobs, or other countries and get better pay but livelihood is not the fundamental problem. For Dar-ul-Uloom the fundamental issue is Deen. Livelihood is not given primary importance. The institution of modern education combined with religion, there are many experiments. There is Jamiatul Hidaya in Jaipur, there is Nadwatul Ulama. In our Benaras there is Jamia Salafiya. All of them have different syllabi. Syllabus of one Madarsa will not match with the syllabus of the others. After completing the education he might be called Nadwi, ...
Kashif-ul-Huda : Don't you feel that, ... you have got your website ... of Dar-ul-Ifta. People ask questions. Fatawah are asked on diverse topics. So to understand those Fatawah .. modern life has become rather complex.... people will ask you questions like what is genetics. Whether genetic engineering is allowed or not. This entails that Mufti Sahab has to study genetic engineering. So don't you feel that if not all there should be some student's who have expertize in those fields also. I mean the Muftis that are being produced.
Maulana : I understand the concern. But tell me one thing. Suppose whatever is the nature of questions being asked, physiology, science, geometry, algebra the does it mean that they should study all of these?
What ever is their specialization be it Fiqh, Qur'an, Hadith, Usool - in that they have to develop expertize. After that whatever topic questions are asked to them the relevant experts will be consulted. A physician sits to traet patients then he asks for ten types of tests, this thing and that test, go to this lab and bring report from there, all that. When he has ten reports then he writes a single prescription. So if a question is asked about science to a Mufti then intriduction of science in his syllabus to answer that is not comprehensible to me.
If these is am inquiry about science then he will ask corresponding expert, if the question is regarding astronomy then corresponding expert can be consulted. There is not be a training in which a person is expert in all fields of inquiry. And to know minute amounts of every thing is not sufficient.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Small amount of knowledge (of diverse fields) is necessary so that you can understand as to what the expert is telling you. To understand his explanation you yourself should have a basic understanding of science. For an expert it is not possible to expound from the beginning as to what is a cell and what are genes. Basic understanding is required.
Maulana : This is not necessary that every Mufti can answer every matter. You see there is Figh Academy. These too are our products. Every type of question is asked there. Every type of expert is called there. If it is a matter of business then business experts are called for consultation. Whatever information is needed on tecnical grouds it is asked from them. Then decision of allowed and forbidden is done by another expert. Informatiion from different sources is collected and the decision is made after making use of all the information. So this is not possible that every query is answered immediately and every Mufti can not answer every question. That is impossible. Nor such solution is possible.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Does this also happen that some question is asked to Dar-ul-Uloom and the answer is not given?
Maulana : Yes. We do not give answer and say that we do not know about it. To answer without knowing is a crime. We just say that we do not know about it. Also understand that this type of questions are usually unnecessary. These are only for increasing information. These have nothing to do with Halaal and Haraam or hereafter.
Kashif-ul-Huda : How do you see the future of Indian Muslims.
Maulana : I see that very bright, Lord willing. For us the future neither menas political power nor excess of money but it is preservation of our religious heritage. That Mulim lives like a Muslim in India and self reliant. By the Grace of Allah (SWT) with the passing of time in place of desperation Muslims are becoming confidant. We are not hopeless in the least bit and we hope that our coming generations will be courageous and confident from every point of view.
If there was any question of hopelessness then seeing the past conditions we could conclude that after independence Muslims of India would have been finished by now. The time that has passed since 1947 there has been a series of riots, killings and murders, looting. There were attempts to demoralize them but if they have gone into desperation then today they would have been non-existent. Allah (SWT) has given them patience and forebearance and courage and strength. And under adverse circumstances internal courage is born, Allah (SWT) help is with us. We have not lost any hope at all.
Kashif-ul-Huda : Can you summarize how Shah Waliullah (RA) influenced Deoband?
Maulana : Shah Waliullah Muhaddis Dehlawi (RA) did not influence Deoband, he lived in different times, long back. Students of his students extracted some ideology from his thoughts and those were the people who established Dar-ul-Uloom. Dar-ul-Uloom is founded on his ideology. In his ideology there is openness in Deen as well as moderation and balance. It is neither constricted (suffocating) nor it is completely lessez faire. Source is same near Shah Sahab (RA), Qur'an and Hadith, same is for us. Health of Aqeedah, firmness on Deen, and a vigil on the environment. Shah Sahab (RA) son Shah Abdul Aziz (RA) had given a Fatawah of India being Dar-ul-Harab after influx of British into India. These (the founders of Dar-ul-Uloom) are successors of them (Shah waliullah (RA) and Shah Abdul Aziz (RA)). These are stidents of their students. So whatever were their concerns, after changed circumstances the interpretations have changed, but the basic concerns are those of Shah Sahab (RA). So we can not say that Shah Sahab (RA) established Dar-ul-Uloom but we should say that his intellectual successors adopted his ideology and his concerns to establish Dar-ul-Uloom.